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Out of Order is a German Marshall Fund podcast about how our world was, is, and will be ordered. The Out of Order podcast brings together experts from the German Marshall Fund of the United States and beyond to talk about politics, economics, technology and everything else that might help us understand our disordered world.

Jul 9, 2020

In this episode of Post-Pandemic Order, guest host Sudha David-Wilp sits down with Congresswoman Lauren Underwood of Illinois's 14th congressional district to discuss the long history of systemic racism in the United States, public health during the coronavirus pandemic, and generational perspectives on governing and...


Jul 2, 2020

The perils of disinformation are no new phenomenon, but the last few months have shown just how much damage it can do—and all the different ways it can be used. On this week’s episode, Jared Cohen, founder and CEO of Jigsaw—the independent unit at Google focused on building technology to address global security...


Jun 18, 2020

No country took as severe lockdown measures as India at the height of the Coronavirus pandemic. According to this week’s guest, the next two weeks will tell the world whether the country of 1.4 billion got it right.

This week on Post-Pandemic Order, former U.S. Ambassador to India, Rich Verma (2014-2017), joins Julie...


Jun 11, 2020

Pete Buttigieg—the Democratic party's first openly gay presidential candidate and a veteran who served in Afghanistan—has gained international prominence. In a conversation originally streamed live as part of GMF’s Brussels Forum, Mayor Pete joined Derek Chollet for a wide-ranging conversation on race relations...


Jun 4, 2020

On this week’s episode of Post Pandemic Order, host Julie Smith talks with Angus Lapsley, director general strategy and international at the United Kingdom's Ministry of Defence. Security in a time of the coronavirus takes center stage in a conversation that touches on the United Kingdom and NATO's response to...