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Out of Order is a German Marshall Fund podcast about how our world was, is, and will be ordered. The Out of Order podcast brings together experts from the German Marshall Fund of the United States and beyond to talk about politics, economics, technology and everything else that might help us understand our disordered world.

Jul 23, 2020

In many ways, Taiwan has a front row seat, with the coronavirus pandemic, Beijing’s new national security law, and geopolitical uncertainty further impacting Taiwan’s already tenuous position. On this episode, GMF’s Julie Smith and Deutsche Welle’s East Asia Correspondent, William Yang, dive into the most...


Jul 16, 2020

When the pandemic spread to Europe, NATO was met with a unique challenge: it needed to assist with crisis response while also keeping its ever-important deterrence mission intact on its Eastern Flank.  On this week’s episode of “Post-Pandemic Order,” Derek Chollet talks with a key leader in this effort, Estonian...


Jul 9, 2020

In this episode of Post-Pandemic Order, guest host Sudha David-Wilp sits down with Congresswoman Lauren Underwood of Illinois's 14th congressional district to discuss the long history of systemic racism in the United States, public health during the coronavirus pandemic, and generational perspectives on governing and...


Jul 2, 2020

The perils of disinformation are no new phenomenon, but the last few months have shown just how much damage it can do—and all the different ways it can be used. On this week’s episode, Jared Cohen, founder and CEO of Jigsaw—the independent unit at Google focused on building technology to address global security...