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Out of Order is a German Marshall Fund podcast about how our world was, is, and will be ordered. The Out of Order podcast brings together experts from the German Marshall Fund of the United States and beyond to talk about politics, economics, technology and everything else that might help us understand our disordered world.

May 30, 2019

The Trump administration’s hard-nosed approach to the European Union has left leaders across the Atlantic questioning where the relationship with the U.S. is headed. According to GMF’s president Dr. Karen Donfried, a tour of Europe shows how the outlook on America changes based on where you sit. While the talk in Paris is all about “strategic autonomy,” Warsaw is buzzing about “strategic embrace.”  

This week on Out of Order, Dr. Donfried sits down with GMF’s Peter Sparding to discuss the three strategic Europes—and what the differences in attitudes reveals about European cohesion and also the future of the transatlantic relationship. The conversation is based on an article by Dr. Donfried that appeared in Defense One earlier this year.