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Out of Order is a German Marshall Fund podcast about how our world was, is, and will be ordered. The Out of Order podcast brings together experts from the German Marshall Fund of the United States and beyond to talk about politics, economics, technology and everything else that might help us understand our disordered world.

Aug 6, 2020

From Brexit to “America First,” Modi in India, Erdoğan in Turkey, and Bolsonaro in Brazil, nationalism – or allegiance to a nation-state over other group affiliations – has been on the rise. Now, borders around the world are closed and the coronavirus pandemic has sparked debate about the future of governance. While the nation-state has been praised for securing the needs of its citizens and serving as the most efficient form of political organization, nationalism has a dark side of insular politics and xenophobia. Does this moment--and all of its challenges--require international leadership, or should nationalism prevail?  Expert debaters take on this timely topic, facing off over the motion: Nationalism is a Force for Good.


An image of Colin Dueck
Colin Dueck
Policy Professor & Author, "Age of Iron: On Conservative Nationalism”
An image of Prerna Singh
Prerna Singh
Political Scientist & Author, “How Solidarity Works for Welfare”
An image of Andrew Keen
Andrew Keen
Internet Entrepreneur & Author, "Tomorrows Versus Yesterdays"
An image of Elif Shafak
Elif Shafak
Activist & Author, “The Bastard of Istanbul”
An image of John Donvan
John Donvan
Host and Moderator

Editor’s Note: GMF’s “Post-Pandemic Order” series is on hiatus. In the meantime, watch our feed for more original podcast content.


This IQ2 debate was produced in partnership with GMF's Brussels Forum and was originally streamed live in June 2020.