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Out of Order is a German Marshall Fund podcast about how our world was, is, and will be ordered. The Out of Order podcast brings together experts from the German Marshall Fund of the United States and beyond to talk about politics, economics, technology and everything else that might help us understand our disordered world.

May 14, 2020

Among the hardest hit in Europe, Spain is cautiously charting a way out of its strict countrywide lockdown. Manuel Muñiz, Secretary of State for Global Spain (a senior minister role in the country’s Foreign Ministry), is a key voice on how exactly Spain sets out on that path. This week on GMF’s Post-Pandemic Order podcast Muñiz joins Rachel Tausendfreund to give an inside look at how Spain handled its need for resources in the thick of its outbreak, and how it’s building a new resilience strategy.

Muñiz also shares insights on how the pandemic has affected the larger international order. Before the pandemic, he says, we were seeing a breakdown in multilateralism and a weakening of the liberal democratic order. The coronavirus now presents two divergent paths, for Europe and globally: one that leads to an unequal, unsustainable economic recovery that will likely entrench political fracture; or one that prioritizes a digital-centered, inclusive, green recovery and creates more unity.